Establishing A Safety Culture: The Importance Of Near Miss Reports In Mitigating Incidents | Ep. 240

COGE 240 | Safety Culture

 

Is it possible to achieve a flawless execution? That may seem impossible, but that should be the construction business’s goal. In this episode, Terry Dussault, the founder of Yellowknife Consulting Services, highlights the value of establishing a safety culture to mitigate incidents. He differentiates a safety program from a safety culture. Terry also discusses why it’s essential to investigate incidences and how you can develop a near-miss reporting program your employees can buy into to reduce the number of incidents in your company. Remember, you need to tailor these insights to your company’s specific needs and culture. Consulting with safety professionals or experts can guide you in implementing an effective near-miss reporting program. Tune in for more!

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Establishing A Safety Culture: The Importance Of Near Miss Reports In Mitigating Incidents

Complexity plus man hours equals near misses. This is a fundamental reality of the construction projects that you build. For every incident that occurs on a project, there are eight near misses. These are some of the realities regarding safety that I discussed with my guest, Terry Dussault, the Founder of Yellowknife Consulting Services and an expert in the development and implementation of safety programs in construction companies.

We talk about what a safety culture is, the difference between a safety program and a safety culture, why it’s important to investigate incidences and how to develop a near-miss reporting program that your employees can buy into so that you reduce the number of incidences in your company. Feel free to share this conversation with other people who you think would benefit. I know you’re going to get some tremendous insights into how to improve your safety program in your company. It’s something we want to focus on so enjoy my conversation with Terry.

Terry, welcome.

Thank you, Eric. I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you.

I’m delighted to have you as well. The reason why is that the topic of conversation is safety. That is something that all of my audience are intensely interested in. Give us a little bit of your background, please.

I got started in safety back in the 1990s and it just evolved. It was something that I didn’t think that I was going to be involved in for very long when I first started but it seemed like with these different companies that I used to work for, somehow I always got nominated to be part of the safety program. It was back in about 2002 when I was doing a lot of work for a major oil company. As part of their contract, they said, “If you want this juicy contract, you’re going to have to go through our safety training school.”

It was at that point that I got involved in safety at a very high level. Before that, it was just some basic meetings, safety committees and things like that. It wasn’t until I started working for the oil companies doing environmental work that I got involved and started to learn some of the things that they were pushing. They were at the tip of the spare as far as safety goes. The requirements and the regulatory requirements and things were very strict and they took safety very seriously. That’s pretty much how I got into safety and it evolved from there.

Every construction company is conscious about safety to one degree or another and yet almost every construction company is not flawless when it comes to being safe on every project that they build. There are incidents and accidents. Let me begin by asking you, what do you mean by a safety culture?

You said a word that I’d like to talk about. You said flawless. The goal for any company should be to at least try and shoot for flawless execution, even if it’s not fully possible to get there. That should be the goal. In doing that, what you want to try and do when you’re talking about safety culture is you want to try and get your teams involved in safety and understand why it’s important. It needs to be organic. In other words, building a safety culture requires that leadership be involved.

You can’t just say, “We want you to be safe. You have to go out and actively be involved as leaders.” When the workers and crews see that senior management is also taking it seriously and that they’re coming out into the field to talk about safety alone, just by itself, they start to grasp the importance of the safety program and that will help build the culture.

If you’re trying to dictate to people, “We expect you to be safe, go out and be safe,” but you’re not providing them the tools and the resources to learn how to work safely and you’re not willing as a leader to go out on your own and have meaningful conversations in the field about safety, workers know that you don’t care. It makes it very hard to sell your safety program or build the culture. When you have a culture, that means everybody’s actively caring and looking out for one another. That’s a very powerful thing.

There are two things there that I heard about the culture. The first one is that it starts at the top with the leaders coming out into the field. I’m assuming you were saying the executive leaders are coming out into the field, talking about safety and providing that example of care and concern for safety in and of itself, apart from productivity or anything like that. Did I hear that right?

Yeah. That’s one aspect.

There’s that aspect of supporting one another in the field. I’d like you to speak to the superintendents and the foreman. Give them your key insights into how they can balance the safety discussions and the productivity discussions and how they should be going about that.

That becomes challenging. You have a lot of different personality types when you have foremen and superintendents. A lot of them are very good at what they do at their jobs. Depending on their background with safety, maybe from other companies that they’ve worked at or their background in general, that comes into play. I’ll give you an example. I did a site inspection for a client. They hired a new foreman and this kid is a carpenter. That’s his trade. They brought him in because they were familiar with him. He worked with them at another company, I suppose.

The other carpenters that were working underneath him, I noticed some of the crewmen were running across the job site. One guy happened to be holding a saw. I asked the main superintendent, “Why is that guy running across the site?” I knew that he was new. To boil it down, what it was is that the new carpenter foreman is a guy that likes to push production. He says he believes in safety but at the same time, the guys that are working under him are afraid of him because of the way he manages. He barks at them and has them on edge and so on, so much that these guys feel the need to be rushed around the job site.

The problem with it was that the site terrain is such that there were a lot of rocks in the soil. I thought, 1) They shouldn’t be running across the job site. 2) This is going to turn into an incident. What I like to look at is where’s the time pressure coming from. Is this something that management’s driving down like, “We need to finish this project. We’re behind schedule?” The foreman is driving that message and you’re going to end up with an incident. First, you got to look at what you have going on in the field. When you recognize some of these things, figure out a way, a solution that works for everybody.

COGE 240 | Safety Culture
Safety Culture: You need to look at what you have going on the field. When you recognize some of these things, figure out a way, a solution that works for everybody.

 

Let’s assume in this case, the time pressure is coming from the foreman who’s maybe a competitive guy or doesn’t like to go slow. That’s his nature. It’s not necessarily he doesn’t care. It’s just who he is. I’m the owner of the company or an executive in the company. Perhaps I’m a general superintendent or something like that. I come out into the field and I talk to the foreman. How do I communicate with this person? Why his perception of the importance of productivity is not necessarily what we’re looking for in terms of creating this time pressure? How do I communicate to him that even if we did go slightly faster, the risk that we are bringing upon ourselves of incidents and accidents as a result of that is not worth it?

The trick to that is a lot of coaching at first because sometimes people bring that with them or if that’s part of their personality, sometimes as an employer, you have to look at it and say, “We’re trying to build a safety culture.” At the same time, if this guy is so production driven that he’s keeping people on edge and there’s the potential for incidents to occur as a result of his behavior, management has to go back to the drawing board and say, “Is it worth having this guy on our team?” It doesn’t matter if that foreman or super has been there for ten years. If you want to have a good safety culture, you have to have these kinds of conversations.

You have to also say, “Is this the right person for the right seat?” Let’s say you’re building an organization or a company. You’re getting new projects and some of them are big. I remember way back in the day, we got a project or a contract for $20 million and we had to ramp up. You start to have these different kinds of challenges.

Sometimes you might have a person that’s been there for a long time from the start of the company. They’re a loyal employee but the position outgrows their capability. All of a sudden, you have a person that is not the right person for the right seat. You might have to find somebody who has a better mindset for safety or make some readjustments within your organization so that your safety culture is not compromised.

In some cases, you have to let people go. That’s the unfortunate part. When I see this type of behavior where people are rushing around. sometimes working slowly is working fast because if somebody gets hurt on that job site, you have an OSHA investigation or something like that. It shuts production down altogether. You have to be able to balance that as a superintendent.

Sometimes working slow is working fast. Click To Tweet

Let me ask you this then. Let’s say I’m having this conversation. What is the best way to articulate to someone who is driven by production where I must slow down and where I can speed up? I come onto the job site, maybe I’m having a meeting with him at my truck or in the job site trailer. I’m saying, “I understand that you want to drive production and we appreciate that but let me give you a perspective on production. Here are the three areas where you must slow down. You must tell your guys to go slow but here are three areas where you can give attention to that production.”

What I’m saying is that instead of the dude running across the job site, have everybody walk but once they get to the place where they’re doing the installation, perhaps with this particular task, because of the safety parameters around it, this is an area where you can emphasize, “When you’re in this position and you’re doing this task, you can focus on being as productive as possible.”

You have to look at where are some areas that are maybe more high risk. In those areas, you have to make sure that there’s no wiggle room for safety because the severity of an incident could be high or the likelihood could be high. If something does happen, the severity could be high. Whereas if you have a set of tasks that the crew is going to do that are maybe not so complex, then they can make up the speed on those particular tasks.

In high-risk areas, ensure there's no wiggle room for safety because the severity of an incident could be high. Click To Tweet

The trick is for the foreman or superintendent to know how to balance that. Sometimes they just need a little bit of coaching and then there are other times where the tasks are so complex and time-consuming that the only way to do them is to do them slowly and meticulously. I was at a different site where an almost dissimilar thing happened with one of my clients where they were doing a lot of industrial piping and they were rushing to meat production.

These are large diameter pipes, 15 inches. There are a lot of valves. The installation process has to be precise. If you don’t do it right, you’re going to end up doing rework. A couple of weeks later, I came back to the project. For this client, I only do weekly site inspections. I noticed that they were working on the same set of pipes again. I started asking out of curiosity what the status was and what they were doing. It turned out they had to do three days of rework because they were rushing the job.

That’s interesting to think about how there’s a nice dovetail between safety and quality.

It all ties together, Eric. That’s why I say balance is key. I believe planning is everything. If you have rock-solid planning, that will help a lot. Sometimes what happens is a lot of construction companies and contractors are forced to use the manpower that they have or they have available but it might not be their top players. When you have that happen, then sometimes you think that you’re making your production schedules and things like that but you end up paying the price in some other way, either quality, safety or some other thing.

COGE 240 | Safety Culture
Safety Culture: Planning is everything. If you have rock-solid planning, that will help a lot.

 

What is the difference between a safety program and a safety culture?

A safety program is you might have all the key things to have the program, like all the pieces. The culture is the synergy of what’s going on in that company when it comes to safety. When you have people that are working out on jobs or you have management, what’s the general feeling within the company? Does everybody believe in safety? Are they talking about it or are they expecting that to be somebody else’s department and they have no involvement in it?

When it’s organic and everybody’s involved, they’re sharing the findings of their investigations. They’re having monthly safety meetings, like all hand safety meetings. If they’re doing safety stand-downs after an incident occurs, like company-wide safety stand-downs, they’re sharing the findings or the lessons learned about what those incidents were so they can prevent that from happening again. It’s like practicing what you preach. That’s what will help build the culture. You have to have some teeth in your safety program. I believe that it’s very important to coach people as much as you can, keep it positive and remind them why it’s important to work safely.

If you have employees or guys out working on the job site and they’re not taking it seriously, you have to deal with it somehow. A thorough incident investigation is key as far as that goes. If people knowingly violate safety policies, there have to be some teeth in the program. Something has to happen. Coaching and training will take you pretty far. For the rogue workers that don’t want to play nice in the sandbox, you have to figure out a way to handle that. Unfortunately, that’s the nature of work. There also has to be good synergy between the safety person and human resources. It’s like they’re working together so there has to be a good connection there.

How can safety people conduct themselves in their interactions with the field so that they maximize the likelihood of the field listening to them and implementing what they’re doing? The reason I’m asking this is a lot of times I’ll talk to a safety person and they’re the bad cop. Sometimes safety does attract people who are super militant. They’re correct in what they’re saying but the way they say it, it puts the field off and they’re like, “Screw that guy. He comes onto the job site. I’m looking forward to talking to him.” Speak to the safety professionals out there about how they should be showing up on the job site to maximize the impact of their message with the men and women in the field.

That’s important because sometimes your delivery is everything. You get farther with sugar than you do with vinegar when you’re talking to your foreman, superintendents and people about safety. You have to find a person that’s tried and true and has a good delivery. You could have all the safety credentials in the world but that doesn’t mean you’re going to be a successful safety officer within an organization. If you don’t know how to speak to your team and your employees and you think you’re going to be a dictator, you’re going to isolate yourself and send the wrong message. It’s hard to recover from that.

What’s the advantage of developing a safety person who’s had experience in the field as opposed to bringing in someone who has all the certificates, if you know what I’m saying?

I like promoting from within the field because there’s something different about a safety person who has the experience. They automatically, in most cases, get the respect of the workers because they’ve done that work and put their hands on it. They know what it feels like to have to go out into the field and do a job when it’s 105 degrees outside and there’s a lot of humidity. They understand what that feels like. They might pick up on things that a safety officer with a lot of schooling would miss. That is important.

Why is it important to investigate incidents and then have a near-miss reporting program?

What I’ll do here is, if you don’t mind, I’ll start with near-miss reporting because ideally by capturing a near-miss, I look at it like it’s a golden nugget or an opportunity to fix something before a real incident occurs.

I think about our kids. If they do something where they could have broken the window but they didn’t, they don’t come running and say, “Pop, I threw the baseball through the window and the baseball didn’t juggle the window for some reason. That didn’t happen.” How do I as a leader establish that this is why we need to hear about every near-miss that occurs?

We want you to tell on yourself. When something happens in the field and there’s a close call, even if nobody got hurt, we want to know about it. Why is it important to report it? Usually, it’s when you investigate an incident. Here’s the real reason. For every incident that happens, there are some statistics that there are usually 8 or 9 near misses that occurred before that incident happened that were similar in nature. If you start to capture near misses, then what you can do is say, “We have a problem.”

COGE 240 | Safety Culture
Safety Culture: Statistics say there are usually eight or nine near misses that occurred before an incident happens.

 

I’ll give you a specific example here. I was going out doing site inspections for a client trying to get them to report near misses. They already report them but what I was trying to tell my client is, “I don’t think you’re getting enough near misses for the amount of man-hours that are being spent on these projects. With the complexity of the projects, I know there are more near misses happening.”

We started this little mini-campaign to get people to report more near misses and I said, “I’ll help coach, the superintendent’s informant, to capture more.” Two days later, I go out to a project site. They’re doing some excavating work and there’s a dump truck. The dump truck got stuck on a mound of dirt and high-sided itself. It turned out that in the secondary air tank for the brakes, there’s a little pressure relief valve or something. That thing snapped off.

The driver didn’t know about it and he proceeded to go to another area of the site to dump his load of soil on a stockpile. He couldn’t manage the truck properly or lift the bed. He was having some issues. I was getting ready to leave the job site. I see him jump out of his truck. He runs around it and goes underneath the truck. He was inspecting it. The truck is parked on a slope and it’s got a full load of soil. We’re talking a dump truck here so there’s a lot of weight. I stopped. I went and intervened. I said, “What are you doing? You can’t be under there.” We started talking about it and captured that as a near-miss incident.

It turns out the driver was inexperienced and brand new on the job. He wasn’t being spotted properly in the work area initially where he was being loaded. That’s why he high-sided the truck and the damage occurred. When you start to investigate it, let’s say that person was under the truck, the truck rolled over him and something bad happened.

OSHA comes out and does an investigation. They’re going to start asking a lot of why. When you get down in the incident investigation, if I was doing it, I would say, “What we need to do is figure out all the causal factors for why it happened.” If you don’t ask enough whys, you might not get to the full root cause or the correct root cause, which could lead your corrective actions in the wrong direction.

We’re doing the near-miss reporting, even if the company says, “We don’t have time for that. It takes too much energy.” I’ve had clients say that before. “We don’t want to do all this near-miss reporting. It will take too long. We don’t have the resources for it.” There are ways to set up what I call a near-miss flash report where you could enter the information on your phone. It takes two minutes and all your superintendents in your foreman are capable of entering this information in a fraction, not even that much time. At least you’re capturing what is happening on-site. When you do have your monthly safety meetings or you’re doing safety committee meetings, you have some information that’s relevant to your company that you can talk about.

Is that a specific app on the phone? What is that?

It’s a software program. I’ve used it for several years. It’s a company that I’ve worked with out of Canada. You can put your whole safety program, all your documents and everything in one place.

What’s the name of that company, please?

It’s SiteDocs and they’re in Canada. It’s a great company. You can transform your program quickly and it’s super effective. Going back to the near-miss thing, you have to understand that there’s a relationship between near misses and incidents. When you understand that those near misses are opportunities to make corrections in your safety program or even have discussions, you’re promoting your safety culture.

COGE 240 | Safety Culture
Safety Culture: You’re promoting your safety culture when you understand that those near misses are just opportunities to make corrections in your safety program.

 

You want to catch things before they happen in any way you can prevent an incident, if it’s by having more discussions in the field or capturing near misses in investigating them because there’s no difference in how you would investigate a near-miss in an incident. The investigation can be the same. The only difference between the two things is luck.

Let’s say a guy is on the job site. Every time you go there, you see him jumping off the backhoe and he is not using three points of contact. You can go talk to the guy and say, “If you continue to jump off that backhoe, what do you think’s going to happen? You might fall off three times. Nothing happens but on the fourth time, you break a leg or twist an ankle. Now you have a workers’ comp claim or a bodily injury incident you have to deal with.” Those bodily injuries and incidents chip away at your company’s EMR rating.

The idea here is to prevent injuries, property damage, environmental exceedances and security incidents. Most importantly, every employee needs to understand the importance of preserving the company’s EMR. That’s your Experience Modification Rating and that’s part of your workers’ comp stuff. The best way I describe that is it’s like your company’s safety credit rating. If the company’s safety or EMR rating goes too high, it can prevent them from bidding on big projects, which prevents the ability for new opportunities. In some cases when the EMR is too high, if you’re not allowed to bid on certain projects, it gives your competitor a way in.

Let me take you back a little bit. There’s a little formula that I heard and its complexity plus man-hours equals near misses. In your mind, do you have some ratio or specific number that you communicate to people like, “You’ve got this type of complex project. These are the number of man hours on the complex project you have and therefore, these are the number of near misses you should be expecting?”

There are some numbers out there and I don’t remember all of them off the top of my head but from a proactive approach, what I try and do is let’s say for every 350 man-hours that you have on a job site or 400, you should have 1 management interaction on the job like doing an observation or going out, having some discussion specifically about safety. I’ve seen where a lot of managers will go out and they talk about the scope of work, production and stuff but they don’t talk about safety.

Why that specific number?

Those are some proven statistics or some numbers that were generated from some of the oil companies where I did some work over the years. They spent a lot of time diving into that. They put a lot of money into the research and they said, “If you can do that, then that will be a sufficient amount of engagements to start helping promote your safety culture.” Sometimes the managers, you go out and start talking safety. You could ask, “Have there been any near misses?” Sometimes when you ask those questions, people will tell you, “Something happened yesterday.”

Go out and start talking about safety to promote a safety culture. Click To Tweet

Is there any wisdom in tying bonuses or incentives of some kind to the reporting of near misses?

There are some different schools of thought on that. I remember back in the day, I worked at a company that was founded by John Wayne. One of the incentives was if nobody gets hurt at the end of the month, everybody gets a certain amount of points. There’s this book and you’re allowed to pick a gift out of the book. You could also let your points ride throughout the end of the year. At the very end of the year, the prize is much bigger. You get to pick out of the book. I remember there was a camera.

The problem with having a program like that is if somebody gets hurt, they’re going to be less likely to report it because everybody wants the camera. If Joe cuts his finger, he’s going to be less likely to go report it because of the peer pressure of everybody telling him, “You messed up. Now we don’t get our camera.” As far as reporting near misses, there should be some incentives for that. Those are discussions that need to happen internally with the company management. If you want to promote the near misses, a good way of doing it is by tying it to incentives. It’s important that the employees know the difference between a hazard and a near-miss.

What is the difference between a hazard and a near miss?

Let’s say I have a project I have going on for a client where there are a lot of rattlesnakes. Those are biohazards. We knew it going in. There are also poisonous plants and a lot of other stuff because it’s a remote area. Those are hazards. A near-miss would be more like an encounter. Let’s say you got out of your work truck or the work truck was parked by a certain area and you go to get in it. There’s a snake behind the tire and you didn’t see it.

That’s different. You could call that a near-miss. The fact that there are snakes in the area, those are hazards. Sometimes a hazard could be reported as a near miss but it doesn’t matter. As long as people are being proactive, you can flush that out and train the workers about all the nuances of what a near miss is. It’s important to capture.

Let’s say you’re having lunch with the CEO of a construction company and he’s saying, “Terry, I care about safety. I want my people to care about safety. Give me 2 or 3 things that I can do in the next 90 days to improve the safety of my organization.” What advice would you give to the CEO of the construction company?

The first thing you would need to do is get your key leadership involved or people from the field that can help identify where you have the most risk. What I mean by that is where is the potential highest for somebody to get hurt that we may not be fully aware of? Where is the potential for us to have some kind of other loss that could have a financial impact?

For example, a fine from a regulatory agency. I had this client whom we were trying to encourage to do more near-miss reporting. They had a lead abatement cleanup project. They had 25 crews. They were doing a lot of trucking of hazardous soil. They had hazardous soil and there were two different classifications, low levels of lead and high levels of lead. Both waste streams were routed to different disposal facilities.

There was a mix-up and that mix-up ended up costing the client $750,000 to clean up the mess because the high-level lead ended up in the low-level lead waste disposal facility, which triggered a regulatory problem and a lot of attorneys on calls. It cost a lot of money. The other thing that it did is it increased their insurance premiums by $400,000 a year. Look for the highest potential for something to happen or the highest risk areas and focus on those first. Try and understand what’s happening in those areas.

Get your employees involved in trying to get some near misses reported. Use the information to make improvements and then share those improvements with the employees because it’s important. A lot of times, the employees are seeing things but you have to encourage them to speak up. Sometimes they’re afraid to speak up. There are people that are quiet. That’s not their nature or personality but they’re sitting on a lot of information that could be useful. That would be some of the main things.

COGE 240 | Safety Culture
Safety Culture: Get your employees involved in trying to get some near misses reported, and then use the information to make improvements.

 

As you’re trying to understand what’s happening and this will be my last question to you, how should I frame that conversation? As I’m looking to get a deeper understanding, what are some key questions I can ask or approaches I can use to get as much information as possible?

That would depend on logistics, depending on how big the company is and where everybody is. Sometimes it might make sense to do an all-hands meeting. You might have to do a Zoom meeting, get people on the call, get everybody together and say, “This is the message. We’re looking for areas of vulnerability within the company and we need your help. We can’t see everything when we’re running a company and managing it. The company is growing and getting bigger. We need your involvement and help in identifying some areas where we can improve or enhance our operations so that we don’t end up with costly accidents.” If you involve people and then give them some examples maybe of what you’re looking for, you’d be surprised what people will come up with.

If you involve people and give them examples of what you're looking for, you'd be surprised what people will come up with. Click To Tweet

Let me ask you this other question. How often should I, as the CEO of my construction company, be visiting a job site and having some safety conversations with the men and women in the field?

I would say as often as possible but I know the reality of that is sometimes it’s not there. The longest it should be is quarterly but you could get out on a monthly basis, depending on how big some of these companies are.

I’m talking about any size company. Give us a general idea.

Monthly would be optimum. We have the president of one company decided to go out. He bought a high-end barbecue. He goes out on a monthly basis and will barbecue for the guys on certain projects. He can’t get to every project but you’d be surprised how far that goes.

How large is that company that you were talking about?

Three hundred and fifty employees.

What revenue are they doing?

A hundred and twenty million a year or more.

Make that point real quick. If you have a company that’s around $100 million a year, you too could buy a barbecue, go out to a job site, cook for the guys and give a talk on safety. Is that what you’re saying, Terry?

Yeah, you can. It goes a long way. It’s money well spent. I hear the feedback from the guys in the field so I know that that helps a lot.

Tell us a little bit more about what you do for your company and how you help construction companies.

It depends on each company. Everybody has different needs depending on the size of the company. Some of them might be struggling with the problems with their experience modification rating. Maybe it spiked and now they’re having to deal with, “How are we going to respond to that so that we don’t lose our competitive edge,” or it might be training. Sometimes I’ll go out and do coaching or training on job sites even for companies if they’re experiencing some problems. I can help with incident investigations.

In some cases, I had a client that had a worker get his pinky cut off. They had the safety personnel but they didn’t have time to investigate it. I ended up doing the investigation for them and helping determine all the root causes and solutions. If you want to transform your safety program to digital, I work with SiteDocs to help do the implementation process so that people can go digital. That system is probably, as far as dollars and cents go, one of the best investments a company can make.

How can people get ahold of you, Terry?

My website is www.YellowknifeSafety.com. Most of the things that we offer are all there. There’s a way to get ahold of me through there. If one of your audiences wants to have a conversation about safety, I don’t care. It doesn’t matter where it goes. Maybe they just have a question. I’m willing to talk to anybody. My wife doesn’t like it when my phone’s ringing all night but to me, I don’t mind doing it. I like what I do. I care about people and I want to help companies improve their safety programs. Even if you use my services or you don’t, I’m willing to have a conversation about safety.

Terry, I appreciate your time. I noticed you’re down in Huntington Beach. Give the audience a quick recommendation. Southern California, I’m in Huntington Beach. What’s the one restaurant I need to hit up?

There’s a nice restaurant down here in a place called Pacific City. It’s right across the street from the beach. It’s a newer development. The place is called Ola. There’s a nice restaurant there. There’s another one in there called Bluegold, a little higher-end place but both are great.

Ola is a Mexican place and then Bluegold sounds like California cuisine.

It’s good. They have all kinds of stakes. One last thing I was going to say is if your audience is interested in doing SiteDocs, they can contact me or the contact person at SiteDocs that you should talk to. His name is Richard. There’s only one Richard. If you tell him that you’ve heard about SiteDocs through this show and Yellowknife Safety, he will probably be willing to give you a deal. Those are nice folks over there. They’re awesome.

I appreciate you taking the time, Terry. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you, Eric. I appreciate it. Take care.

 

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About Terry Dussault

COGE 240 | Safety CultureAs a corporate EH&S professional, Terry Dussault, Founder of Yellowknife Consulting Services, has been a top safety expert in Southern California for over 25 years. Terry specializes in preparation and implementation of custom training programs related to Cal OSHA and DOSH, EPA, and DOT regulations.

Terry has an extensive background in environmental compliance on a variety of projects including sites impacted with contamination from prior manufacturing and distribution operations.

Prior to being a health and safety consultant, Terry accumulated 25 years’ experience as an EH&S professional on environmental remediation projects, manufacturing plants and aerospace.