2023 was a significant year for the educational sphere. Today, we get a future glimpse of construction education with the Founder and Director of Capital College & Career Academy, Kevin Dobson. In this episode, he brings some of his freshmen students who share experiences on studying construction and provide feedback on their ongoing classes. As they look forward to becoming engineers, they share perspectives on applying their learnings to the real world, how they hope to bring innovation to this ever-growing space, and what must be done to revolutionize the currently lacking education system.
—
Listen to the podcast here
Capital College And Career Academy: The Future Of Construction Education Is Here
2023 was a very significant year in the educational sphere. I’ll tell you why. In Sacramento, California, the Capital College and Career Academy received the incoming freshman class for the first time ever. In this episode, the Executive Director, Kevin Dobson, and three of his students, Noah, Cesar, and Kasai, are joining us on this show to talk all about their experience at this free public charter school that is dedicated to accelerating the learning of high school students with a particular aim of ushering a new crop of highly skilled, highly motivated individuals into the construction industry. It’s a great conversation. It’s a nice four-way discussion with these wonderful people. You’ll be inspired to think about how you might be able to help other people find a way into the construction industry in high school, college, and beyond. Enjoy the conversation.
—
Kevin, welcome back to the show.
How’s it going? Nice to be here, or nice for you to be here.
I know. We’re sitting on the beautiful campus of Capital College and Career Academy. You’ve been on the show a couple of times. We’ve talked about your journey to getting to this point where the school is open and the freshman class is in. What’s been your biggest accomplishment, you think, not just that you’ve achieved, but the whole group that’s been working with you, both the people who sponsored it and the people who are involved in it? What’s been the biggest accomplishment, you think, in the last couple of years?
I think just getting this campus open and seeing students here. That was all the work since 2019. All the countless hours were for that moment. It might be a long day of work, just pinching myself off like, “Look what we’ve done.” Seeing the opportunities here and from families, here and from students, what this campus has meant to them. I think just working with students one-on-one and getting them to take ownership of this space because it’s their school and their building. That’s been the thing that I think I’ve been most proud of and most excited about.
Introducing The Freshman Class
That’s excellent. With that in mind, we have three students here with us on this episode, the freshman class, the first class of the school. I just want to go around the room and have each one of you guys introduce yourself unless you want to introduce the students.
We have Noah, Cesar, and Kasai, but I’ll allow them to introduce themselves. Maybe you guys can also just share where you’re from or how you found your way to CCCA. There you go.
I found my way to CCCA.
What’s your name?
Noah. The school was recommended to me by a student who goes here. He’s also my friend. My mom told me about it. I thought that it would be a pretty cool place because I like construction and I want to weld. The trades classes were perfect. That’s what I was interested in.
Why do you want to weld?
You make pretty good money. I took a welding class last summer, and it was fun.
Where were you taking that class?
Sac State.
I know that you draw students from all areas here. How close are you to the campus as far as where you live?
Fifteen minutes away. Land Park.
Cesar?
Hi, my name is Cesar. I learned about the school when they came to my middle school and they presented how the school was. At first, because when they said it was hands-on, I didn’t expect it to be how it actually is. I went online and I went to their website, and I saw the video and I liked it because it’s mainly focused on construction.
That’s great. Now, when you compare what you’ve been doing as a freshman in high school versus what you were doing in middle school in terms of how your day is structured, what difference is there? What’s the main difference, do you think? I remember when I was in middle school, it was like, “I did not want to be there.” I’m sitting in class. I’m like, “This is so boring.” I got to be in there for six periods a day, and just sit there and then go to the next class. Is the high school experience that you’re having, is it different than that, or is it similar to that? How does it work?
It’s different because, like you said, in middle school, I didn’t want to be there. Now, when I go to the classes, I actually enjoy them because of the way they teach as well.
What’s your favorite class?
Brooks class, craft skills.
Why is that your favorite?
They bring other industry people, and they’ll show us how to frame or how to do other jobs. I like that.
That’s awesome. What’s the one thing that you’ve learned so far that you’re like, “This is pretty cool?”
When they came, they were showing us how to frame and I liked it. I even stayed during lunch as well to continue talking to them and them showing me how to do it.
That’s cool. Hi Kasai.
I’m Kasai, and I found out about the school because I live in the area, and my mom was like, “There’s a new school. You should go.” At first, I was like, “I’m good off that.” My middle school experience was not good. I was like, “The thought of going to high school didn’t excite me.” She was like, “You have options. I’m not going to force you to go to the school.” She was like, “You could go to the summer program that they’re having, and then we could sit down and have a talk about which school you want to go to.” I did not want to go to the summer program either. When I went there, I actually ended up enjoying myself. The first couple of days, I was like, “I want to get out of here.” I sat and stayed there for a while. I met a lot of different partners that came in and hearing them talk about how they got to their jobs.
It was cool hearing them because a lot of them, they weren’t into construction either. I was like, “I actually want to give this a try.” I was like, “I actually made the decision to end up going to the school.”
They were telling you that they weren’t thinking of it when they were like your age. Is that what they were saying?
Yeah. A lot of the stories that they told me about their high school years and the jobs that they did before I was like, “I can relate.” They were like, “I didn’t do that good in school.” There’s a bunch of different stories. There are people who did good in high school and people who didn’t do good in high school. They gave me a lot of good advice.
That’s awesome. What’s your favorite class?
My favorite class is probably Mr. Brooks’s class too, because of the people that come in. It’s cool hearing them talk. It’s nice that they come in and teach us stuff. They’re always so kind and patient.
That’s great. Just give the mic back to Kevin. I just have a quick question for him. Now this Mr. Brooks, that’s twice we’ve mentioned him. Who is Mr. Brooks?
A couple of things they have their introductory to craft skills is Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Mr. Brooks is our building trades teacher. He actually came from Brooks Tile. We had one of our general contractor partners send out this blast email talking about the school talking about our needs. We still have space available for students and looking for a building trades teacher. The other thing they’re talking about is that every Tuesday and Thursday in Mr. Brooks’s class, we have a career exploration in this first semester. While students will start to go off campus next semester to do job shadowing with employers, our goal this first semester is to show them all the different career paths that exist.
We’ve had the carpenter’s apprenticeship. We’ve had the electricians out here. We had SR Diversify, talking about heavy civil and the work that they’ve done. Standard Drywall was here this past week and SMUD. It’s always a different group. The idea is to just do some type of hands-on activity that gives a snapshot of what it’s like in their specific part of the trades.
That’s awesome. Noah, back to you real quick. Welding. Does your family have a background in welding? No. Any background in construction?
Nope. Garbage.
Really? They’re in the garbage.
My dad’s family owned a garbage business. We just sold it.
Cool. What do your parents think about you coming here?
My dad will support me either way. My mom supports me. She’s the one who found the school, so she likes it. She thinks it’s a good opportunity for me.
That’s great. Now, when it comes to welding, is that something you’re thinking about after graduation getting into, or what are your thoughts?
I want to go to a school called Western Welding Academy. It’s in Wyoming, and they teach you how to pipeline weld. That’s the welding I want to go into.
Do you want to get into the pipeline?
Yeah.
Now, why pipeline?
You make a lot of good money there.
It’s like when you see someone doing something you’re like, “That’d be sweet.” When you start to do it, you find out the reality of it. Like pipeline welding, I’m assuming you’re going to be traveling a lot and all that stuff. How does that sound?
I’m all for it because also, a lot of them drive big trucks, and I like trucks. I also love hard work.
That’s good. What’s the most challenging aspect of going to school here?
I wouldn’t say there’s a challenge. The only challenge is I like working with my hands, so I want a longer shop class. That’s about it.
Sometimes, you do get a little bored sitting in the regular classes and waiting for the other classes to come. I know how that is. Cesar, let me ask you another question here. What is your family’s background in construction?
My dad does a little bit of everything, and during the summer, I would go with him to work. I started liking construction when I went with him, and then I found out that they do it here, and I liked it.
What do you like about construction?
It’s hands-on. Everything’s hands-on, and you’re always occupied doing something.
Everything in construction is hands-on. You are always occupied doing something. Share on XAs you’ve been here, what is something that surprised you when you first came to school and now after being here a few months, you think, “I didn’t know that when I first came in.” After you graduate, what are some goals that you might have?
I wanted to become an engineer, and my sister also became an engineer. She helped me a lot on which college to go to and we decided to go to UCLA.
Interesting. Has she been to college?
Yeah.
Where did she go?
Not sure.
Okay, no problem. That’s interesting because Noah, you’ve already got in mind the welding, the welding place, and it’s interesting, you’re not thinking about immediately going into construction. You’re thinking about going on to the university and getting an engineering degree. That’s interesting. Now, why do you want to be an engineer?
My parents’ friend is an engineer, and I saw what he did, and I just liked it.
That’s cool. What do you like about it?
That you’re not just sitting in an office or something and just typing. You’re actually doing something.
That’s cool. Do you know what engineer you want to be?
That I’m not sure.
There are lots of different things you can do there, huh? That’s interesting. Okay, Kasai, so I know there’s a long way to go. You all are all freshmen. A lot can happen between freshman year and senior year. It’s not like you’re setting this in stone, and you must do it because you said it on the show. What would you say are your goals after you graduate, if you have any?
Right now, I don’t have a set like, “This is what I want to do.” I’m a person that I like to look at different things and explore different things. I just want to be able to peek my head into different things but still make a good living.
That’s cool. Now, here at the school, what are some of the different things that you’re learning?
We learn a lot. Obviously, we learn a lot about all the different fields and construction we could get into. Another thing that was shocking when I came here is that I thought it was just going to be all construction, construction, but we learn a lot about just what you need to do to be successful in any career that you want to get into.
We learn a lot in construction education about what you need to do to be successful in any career that you want to get into. Share on XWhat’s one thing that you’ve learned about being successful in any career? What’s something that stuck with you there?
Something that stuck with me is probably what we’ve been learning in our Get Focused class. Just being responsible, being strict, not strict with yourself, but just like, when you’re an adult, you obviously have to make responsible decisions with your money and make sure that when you get into a job, you’re being realistic. It’s not just like, “I want to do this. I’m just going to walk into this blindly.” Doing research and getting prepared so you can have an advantage.
Adjusting Into Adulthood
It’s interesting as I think about our culture at the moment. There’s an idea that many people have of extending childhood well into their 20s. I know with my kids, I’m like, “You’re going to work as soon as you can. When you graduate from high school, you can go to college, but you’re going to work as well. You need to step up and start behaving as an adult as soon as possible.” Do you think here at the school you guys have, is that an emphasis that’s made? We’re going to be doing some adulting, and we’re going to be doing it sooner rather than later?
Yeah. When I was in middle school, the main question I always was wondering when I was in class is, when am I going to use this in the real world? That question is always answered when I’m at the school. When I was in middle school, the teachers would just be like, “What are you talking about? Get to work.” Now, they explain, and I don’t even have to ask that question. They will just say, “When you get into this career, you will have to use this.” In math, we apply it to work. You’re not just doing math, you’re learning how you would be using the math in work. I feel at this school, I’ll be successful because I won’t just have no clue when I go to work. I’ll be like, “I learned this, and I know how to apply it to my job.
That’s great. Kevin, go ahead.
That’s great to hear because I think we talked about this on a couple of episodes, Eric, is that my frustration, as a high school teacher and as a principal, was exactly what Kasai said. It’s like, “Why are we teaching this stuff?” Students have been in school for twelve years, and then we get to graduation, and it’s like, “We prepared you for college.” That’s only 30% of people are going to actually go to college and get a degree. How did that translate to you getting a job, having a career, knowing what you want to do, whether that’s college or a career? That’s one of the things we’ve emphasized here as a staff is to try and answer those questions.
I’m not saying that you have to go be in construction or you’re going to have to use this math in this way, but at least be able to answer that question of why are we learning this? Through the four years, students are building their resumes. The other thing we’re excited about, we’re about two and a half months into the school year, half the students are going to Sac State for a mentorship program with the Sac State construction management engineering students. All of the students have gotten their CPR first aid certificate. All of the students have started their OSHA 10 with more and more of them starting to complete that. We’re not even a semester in, and they have more on their resume than 90% of other high school students are getting just by the time they get to graduation.
Outside Perspectives
That’s awesome. Let me ask you guys. I’m going to ask all three of you this, and then if you have an answer, that’d be great. What about your friends who aren’t going here or your family members who aren’t going here? What do they think about you guys going to this high school and the difference between, let’s say, their experience and your experience? Did anyone get anything on that? No, this is Noah, by the way.
My friends, they don’t care. My family members are happy that I found something that I like to do and or a school that I want to go to. They’re just happy for me, I guess.
That’s cool. How about you, Cesar?
The same thing as Noah, but I told my friends about how the school is and what we do, and they liked it. I tried convincing them to go here, but at the same time, they didn’t believe me.
What don’t they believe?
How good it is.
You’ve been recruiting, but they don’t believe you?
Yeah.
Interesting. It’s funny when Kevin was talking about the construction management program at Sac State. That’d be a cool thing for you to check out because if you go to engineering school at UCLA, there’ll be some similarities there between what they’re doing at the construction management and what they’re doing at UCLA. Kasai, what does your family and friends think about it?
My family, whenever I tell them about it, they’re always interested in what I have to say. They’re always like, “I’ve never heard of something like that.” My friends, they think it’s pretty cool. I try to get someone to go to. They’re just like, “Nah.”
Advice For Future Students
Now, you guys, you’re the first class here. I’m sure that Kevin and the other folks, they’re actually going to be getting some feedback from you guys and learning a lot as you’re going through it. I know you’re just starting. It’s not like years of experience here. As you’re getting going here, is there anything that you’ve noticed maybe for the next freshman class coming in could be done better or differently or anything like that or advice for people coming in? Especially like, if you’ve been to regular school, and so you’re sitting on your butt all day, and you’re just spacing out waiting for the classroom bell to ring. What advice do you have for the next class coming in?
This is go and try friending everyone or meet everyone because you’re going to have a class with most of the people there.
Cool.
I think the kids should be prepared because some of the kids that go here, don’t try in the building class or the class with a lot of tradespeople and they don’t have good grades. I think that all the kids that go here should know that you have to put in the work to get good grades in that class. It’s not just a free class.
That’s interesting, then. Lay it out for the next class coming in that it’s not just show up and get a grade because sometimes in schools, that’s what I hear from people. It’s like, if you show up and you’re not too much of a jerk, they’ll at least pass you. It’s a little more intensive than that. It’s a little more intentional. Is that what you’re saying?
Yeah.
Interesting. Kevin, what are your thoughts on that?
I think it’s funny. We’ve had a couple of folks from the community who are very involved in a number of local districts, and I was disheartened a little bit by one of the comments they came in, and they’re just, “Kids are learning, and the teachers teach.” It’s like, that should be the minimum expectation of what happens in a school. They were like, “That doesn’t happen around here. That doesn’t happen at these high schools.” I think that also maybe just speaks to the state of the school. We do a lot of work with neighborhood wellness. They came out and did a fentanyl presentation for our students, but they do these community listening circles. That was one of the things that some of the people who worked there were formerly incarcerated, but they were sports players at some of the local high schools.
They said, “Teachers would just tell them, just come to my class. You’re a leader, just don’t cause any issues. You’ll get a C.” You hear these grown men talking about how they’re seniors in high school and can’t even read the writing on a Nutri-Grain bar and how disheartening that is and how helpless it feels. One of the things that I think we need as a team is how do we set high expectations. How do we support students? I will also point out that we have some students that are here who are struggling in math and English. They’re at the early elementary school level. That means that school has not been a place where they’ve found success for 8 or 9 years.
Here they come in, and our work as the instructional team is how we get them. How do we have a culture where they feel safe enough to take a risk to keep trying to trust us and start to see some of those successes and keep trying? We have all the opportunities in the world. If you’re at a first-grade reading level or first-grade math level, you can’t be successful in the workforce. Those opportunities aren’t going to be available for you. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done as well. I think that’s the challenge and also the reward of being in this profession.
Biggest Learning Lesson And Next Class
That’s great. I know, only two months in with kids here, what’s the biggest learning lesson for you where you’re like, “Next class through, we’re going to do things a little bit differently?”
I think just as a new school, you’re building policies, procedures, all the things. That helps strengthen some of the things that we’re doing. The team will continue to grow as enrollment grows. To be honest, I think this is what I’ve always done in profession as a school leader, as a high school teacher. Just listen to the students. They’re going to tell you what’s working and what’s not. Sometimes, they don’t even need to explicitly see. You walk into class, everybody’s heads down, phones out, like obviously, we’re not doing something right in there. Just continuing to rely on the student’s voice. My job as a school leader is to create an environment for our staff where they feel comfortable taking risks with their curriculum and saying, “I’ve always taught math this way. I’ve always taught English this way.”
What can we do differently? How can you make that more engaging and more hands-on? How can you make it, as Kasai was saying, make those connections to the real world? You’re going to try some things, and it’s going to be awful. Hopefully, the students have some grace, and it’s like, “That was a bad class. That didn’t work.” Also, feel comfortable to be able to come back as a teacher and try something new the next day.
Make connections to the real world. Share on XThat’s cool. Last question. Noah, what’s your next class you’re going to?
I have English class. I’m in PE right now.
This isn’t very PE sitting here. English, what are you going to be learning in your English class?
I don’t know. We do this thing on the computers. It’s like to help you with fluency and stuff. That’s okay. I’m not a big fan.
What’s the next class that you’re pumped for?
Math.
When’s that coming?
That comes after lunch.
Cool. What are you going to be learning there?
Something to do with fractions, I think.
Awesome. Cesar, how about you? What’s the next class?
I would say my class English after PE. I’m also not a big fan of English class. Actually, he makes it fun to learn English or how the way he teaches.
How does he make it fun?
I don’t know how to describe it. It’s way better than my middle school English classes and stuff.
That’s cool. Kasai, next class?
English as well.
You guys are all going to the same classes in there. Nice.
You said that when you walk into your class, and everybody has their head down and stuff. We were in Mandarin, I think.
In Mandarin. You guys are taking Mandarin?
Yeah. We were in Mandarin an the classes weren’t going well. Our teachers said, “You guys need to give me some ideas. What would you guys want to do to learn Mandarin? Do you think that would be fun?” Everybody was engaged, giving suggestions. That was the first time I ever heard a teacher actually care about if we were enjoying the class or not. It shocked me. I was like, “Dang.” She was actually trying to talk to me about, like, “I don’t want this class to be boring for you guys. I don’t want you guys to just sit here and not learn anything, not want to be here. What can I do to help you guys out?” That was my first time ever hearing that from a teacher before.
Closing Words
Excellent. Kasai, Cesar, Noah, appreciate your time. Sorry for taking you out of PE. We should have done it during English. We should have done it during English. Kevin, thanks for having us. Let me just bring it back to you here real quick. I just like you to give a shout-out to the folks in the construction community who’ve supported you guys. Just tell us a little bit about that if you could.
You walk around the school, and you just see the name of some large general contractors, some of the apprenticeships, just a five-star bank is another one. Folks that have just been integral to this mission. We just did our mini-golf tournament. Some of these guys participated at some of the industry partners sponsored some foursomes. What I say is we would not be here without the industry support. The moment you step foot in here, it’s like, “This does not feel like a school. You’ve got all new furniture, state-of-the-art TVs, projectors, audio visual systems, and all those activities, whether it’s CPR first aid.” This coming Monday, we’re going to Chico State to do a campus tour and visit Turner’s job site.
There is so many opportunities. We go off campus so much to engage in what’s happening in the real world. None of that would be possible if it wasn’t for all the industry support that we have. I’m not going to sit here and say that has completely gone away. The more support that we continue to receive, the more opportunities like this that we can have. As I said, I cannot be thankful enough for all the partners. Just listening to some of the board members. We’ve got McCarthy, Roblin, the Western Steel Council, NorCal Carpenters, you’ve got SMUD, Caltrans, Teichert, and Granite. The list goes on and on. Just incredibly appreciative.
Let me just ask real quick there. It’s interesting because it seems like there’s a combination of companies that are both union and non-union. Is that correct?
Yeah, that’s right. A mix of both that have been involved in this.
I just want to make a note to the readers here that this is a local effort in the Sacramento region that Kevin has initiated. Something that folks in other regions should be looking for, where there’s an opportunity to start charter schools in combination with the business and the labor community and even the local government and other entities. There’s a lot that can be done here, particularly as we focus on the tremendous need for a trained labor force in the construction industry in the years to come.
I just think from a K to 12 perspective. We started this in 2019, before the pandemic. I think there were a lot of things that weren’t working in education before the pandemic and coming out of COVID. You look around, and it just feels like the need for something different has grown exponentially. Certainly, to support the labor pipeline, but also just to get kids excited about coming to school every day. You’ve got to do this. Who wants to go to a job where you’re just miserable every day? For so many students, that’s become the norm. That leads to statistics we see at our closest comprehensive schools where you got a 40% truancy rate at one and a third of another high school not graduating. It’s because there’s no meaning, no relevance for those students.
I was just thinking as we were doing this, that I’m going to have to come back and maybe trace you guys through your career here. As you get into the sophomore, junior, and senior class, just get a little more feedback from you guys and learn more about what’s been going on. I appreciate all of you guys coming on. Kevin, thanks for having me in. I do wish you all the best.
Appreciate it.
—
This is Eric. Hope you enjoyed my conversation today with Kevin and Noah and Caesar and Kasai. I know I did. If you are in the Greater Sacramento area, you must check out Capital College and Career Academy, particularly if you have a high school student or someone who is a prospective high school student who you think would be interested in the trades. This is a cause worthy of your support. Check out the links in the show notes for more information about Capital College and Career Academy. I know if you reached out to Kevin, he would get back to you as well. He’s very responsive and is the driving force behind this. Thanks again for reading. Feel free to share this episode with other people, and we’ll catch you on the next episode.
Important Links
About Kevin Dobson
He possesses two masters degrees. The first from the University of San Diego in Education and Curriculum with an emphasis on technology in the classroom. The second masters from the University of California Sacramento in Educational Leadership and Policy Studies. In his classroom, students have received national and local recognition for their work. For two straight years multiple students placed in the national CSPAN StudentCam documentary competition. In addition, a 7th grade class received local notoriety for their collaborative presentation with the City of Sacramento’s Special Project Manager to the planning and design commission
As a high school principal, he helped develop a school-wide system of support and led the effort to build a dual enrollment program between Natomas Charter and American River College. In two years, he increased enrollment by nearly 200%. He also spearheaded the creation of a unique math pathway to address the diverse learning needs of all the students. Kevin also led numerous teacher initiatives and instituted a systemic approach to professional learning communities.
Kevin has also coached numerous sports and is a recent graduate from the City Management Academy. He was also recognized as the teacher of the year for his academy in 2018 and was nominated for the Gilder Lehrman History Teacher of the year for the 2018-19 school year prior to moving into administration.
